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The Urban Encounters Boat Cruise [Sep. 16th, 2006|07:40 pm]
In which Wade swings. Kinda. And not the child's kind... Not the dancing kind either....That's right, *that* kind. On a boat. Swinging on a boat! Sounds more dangerous than it really is.

[Warning: This entry contains material of a sexually explicit nature, including rather sexually explicit language and alternative sexual activities. Keep away from children, people carrying bibles, and the sexually conservative.]

[Note: I have even felt compelled to restrict this entry to my friends list - if you know anything about my sense of privacy, this should tell you something. Heed the warning - do not enter if the topics are distressing to you!]


I've been working on developing an entry discussing my thoughts on the concept of swinging, and how it relates to my thoughts on polyamory. However, since it is a rather large topic, it is taking awhile to complete. I'm pretty sure the entry will exceed the silly LJ size limits.

I've been looking for ways to do bottom-up topic development, instead of monolithic top-down development, and thought that a bottom up approach would be particularily suitable in my discussion of swinging. If I could identify sub-topics that can stand on their own, I'd be able to produce bite-sized journal entries, instead of the feast-sized entries I've been serving up till now.

With this in mind, the entry before your eyes is a narrative about my most interesting and memorable swingers-club-related experience. I'm going to try to keep it focused on the experience itself, without too much discussion of the overall swinging and poly philosophies, but I may slip up from time to time and reveal my biases - we'll see.

A tiny amount of background (much more details will be provided in the overarching entry on swinging vs polyamory). I do not identify as a swinger. I have, however, been to a few swingers clubs. Whether I've actually swung or not is open to debate - you'll see what I mean later. All of my swingers-club experiences have been with my past-primiary Sue. My overall impression is that swingers clubs do *not* live up to their mystique. But there are some exceptions.

The Boat

Ok, let's jump into the story. Sue and I had heard about a special event that the Urban Encounters swingers club was putting on; a 5 hour cruise around the Toronto harbour. Sounded like it might be interesting, so we decided to attend. We arrived at about 7:30pm, chatted briefly with the couple who ran the club (I'll refer to them as M. and R.). Sue and R. (the male) had a fairly intense sexual flirtation developing from a few previous experiences (to be discussed in subsequent posts - I'm not doing this chronologically).

After chatting for a bit, we entered the boat. It was big enough to hold 60 people comfortably, and consisted of two decks. Before trying to paint some imagery for you with words, it might be useful to have a more concrete visual representation, so I've provided some ascii art. The lower-case letters are location markers for events/activites that I'll refer to later. The capital letters are for physical things. TV means TV. T means Table.

                               Main Deck
    ______________________/ \________________________    
    |     |      a     T|       T  T  T  T  T    |   \   
    | Bar |      b     V|                        |    \  
    |-----                         x             | Out \ 
    |  w          ._____.       Dance Floor      | side |
    |    Lounge   |Bath |  w                     |     / 
    |T            |Room |  Ts T  T  T  T  T      #    /        
                                 Upper Deck
                             |      x          fg|   \
                             | T  T  T          h|    \
                             | T         sw      | Bal \
                             | T  T              | cony |
                             | T               wc|     /
                             | T  T  T       d   #    /

Ok, now let me fill in this picture with some description. The ramp led into the dance floor area (in the ascii art, enter from the top where the little angle slash thingees are). Initial impressions weren't all that promising though; the room was very dark, and felt somehow "unfinished". I have a vague remembrance that the ceiling had tubes and stuff like that visible overhead. There were chairs and tables around the edges, and a clear space for dancing in the middle.

We looked around a bit, then went into the lounge to continue getting a lay of the land (hee hee). The impression of this room was much more positive. It felt posh, nice ambience, nice color combination, nice lighting. The decor had a red vibe going, but not excessively so. Black leather benches along the walls. A bar in one corner. TV's mounted in the ceiling corners. In case you didn't know it, swingers clubs apparently always play porn. There was porn playing on the TVs. Bad porn, if I recall correctly.

We continued our explorations. Glanced into the bathroom. Fairly small, but not tiny. Huge bowl by the sink, filled to overflowing with all sorts of condoms. Aw, how nice!

We strolled through the dance floor again, and over to the archway/ladder leading to the Upper Deck (the hash marks in my ascii art). The upper deck had a white and blue color scheme, if I remember correctly. It consisted of a room with glass walls (so you could look out at the harbour) and white benches around three of the edges. The floor was white tile. The tables were blue. A large patio door opened out onto an uncovered balcony.

We went back downstairs as the boat continued to fill with more people. Decided to started the evening in the Lounge area. We struck up a conversation with an attactive young couple for awhile. Note that in our (limited) past experience, both of these adjectives (young and attractive) were rarely applicable to swinger clientelle.

They seemed like a nice couple. I'll call them Cindy and Derek. He was solidly built (construction worker), and she was a petite shy blonde girl. Unfortunately, during our conversation I developed the impression that he was the motivator for them attending, and that she was just "going along with it". Not that she was unwilling (it sounded like she was quite sexually open), but that it was more for him than for her. However, I could be totally off-base on this impression (I admittedly do tend to have a negative bias towards males in such situations). In any event, this vibe made me somewhat uncomfortable - it is very important to me that people be engaging in sexual acts *conciously* (sometimes I'm appalled at how unconciously people do the whole eat-sleep-fuck routine).

After awhile, Sue and I decided to go exploring. We checked out the dance room area for a bit, then went upstairs to see what was happening. Not much. We sat up there for awhile, and the young couple came up to join us. It was during this time that I went down to the bar to get drinks for all four of us.

The Lounge

... Wade wanders down the stairs, thru the (crowded) dance floor, and into the lounge ...

So, I enter the lounge (I did really like the ambience of this room) and go to the bar. If you look at my ascii art, you can see me standing there. Wave to the 'w'! I wave back. Anyways. I'm facing the bar. Cannot remember whether there were people behind me or not (in my memory, it was almost empty). However, there was a cute japanese girl sitting on the black leather couch (look for the letter 'a', and ignore the 'b' for now - 'b' isn't here yet). I don't remember much about the girl beyond a vague impression of a white and red outfit of some sort. In her early-to-mid thirties probably (but I'm terrible at estimating age).

So, I'm ordering drinks from the sharply dressed bartender (I always wonder what the service people think of these sorts of parties). While I'm waiting, I notice this tall, well-built black male walk into the lounge. He strolls nonchalantly over to the japanese girl, and stands directly in front of her. She is sitting on the bench, all prim and proper. Yeah, right.

15 seconds later, I'm receiving my drinks from the kindly bartender, and the cute japanese girl has already pulled his cock out of his pants and wrapped her lips around it. Then proceeds to do things that one normally does in such situations.

Now, I appreciate that surrealism is a very relative thing. For many people, this is probably not a particular notable event. But it is all relative to ones past experiences, and I mentioned above that in most situations, I've been very disappointed by the swingers-club dynamic. Furthermore, being an religiously-motivated virgin until the age of 22 (I have since reformed, on both counts, I assure you), I missed out on all that supposedly wild and crazy teenage sex. You know, the kind of sex where cute girls suck on the cocks of cute boys in public.

As an aside (mostly because I know you are wishing I would get back to the story, and I like teasing people), I've since established that the cliched concept of "fun teenage sex" is a depressingly gender-specific phenomenon. Males apparently have lots of fun, guilt-free, casual sex as teens. Females apparently have lots of guilt, not nearly as much fun, and even more (fucked up and unwanted) sex, as teens. Admittedly, I have heard of some very fascinating stories from girls about their sexual experiences (especially one involving a jacuzzi and 10 friends), but the positive experiences seem far outnumbered (in number and in impact) by the profoundly negative experiences.

So, anyways, what I'm trying to say is that when a cute girl starts sucking a males cock 2 meters away from me, it is an amusing, enjoyable, and arousing experience. Blood, originally destined for a femoral artery, got diverted to more central regions.

Now, you might be thinking that developing an erection at a swingers club isn't a particularily unusual phenomenon. However, you may be surprised to find out that for the most part, I find swingers clubs disappointingly much less erotic than I expect them to be. I've noted an unfortunate psychology when attending a swinger club. I *expect* to see wild and crazy things (yes, I know, off-premise clubs don't allow fucking on premise, yeah yeah). So when I go to a club and see a couple almost self-conciously caressing one another, it just really isn't that novel. If I was at a "normal" club, and saw a male surreptiously caressing his girlfriends pussy, it would be intensely erotic! Seeing the same thing in the context of a swingers club? Aw, how cute. But, like, when are you going to do something interesting?

In hindsight, I think that the reason I haven't experienced much in the way of sexually intense vibes in swingers-club dynamics is because of my own sexual wiring. The mental side of sex is ridiculously potent and important for me. I've mentioned elsewhere that I define erotic to mean everything that is left when you take away the physical. I *love* the physical parts of sex, but I *live* for the erotic parts. To me, the physical just isn't interesting when separated from the erotic. Unfortunately, the swingers-club dynamic seems more about the physical aspects of sex than anything else.

In any event, let's go back to 'a' and 'b', shall we? Cute japanese girl is sucking big black boy's cock, 2 meters away from me. I watch while my drinks are being made. It is times like this that I think "Hi mom!". Makes me laugh. I *like* being involved in experiences that I know most people are uncomfortable with. That said, I'm certainly well aware that many people have pushed their (or society's) boundaries much further - I'm not claiming to be the coolest cat out there, but at least I'm not tepid!

Since Sue and the other couple were awaiting their drinks, I decided to mosy along. Would have liked to stay longer, but, really, what would the point be? It wasn't as if I was interested in spontaneously fucking her. I'm just sooo not wired for sex without discussion - cannot do it. Not because I have any personaly objections, but rather because I *need* to know where my partner is coming from before I can be assured that I'm not putting my self-interest ahead of her needs and wants.

I go back upstairs (carrying 4 drinks up ladder-like stairs is *not* easy). I related my experience to Sue and the couple. We chatted some more. After awhile, Sue indicated an interest in exploring, so we went downstairs.

Vegging in The Dance Room, And Some Eye Sex

In our experiences, the swinging scene tends to be populated by suburban couples in their late 40's and 50's. Unfortunately we did not often find people we were attracted to (although admittedly I usually found at least a few girls attractive, while Sue rarely found any males attractive). But for both of us, much of the downer was the psychological ambience of the swingers clubs. Sue is very comfortable with her sexuality, in the right context, but oftentimes the swingers clubs made her feel more inhibited than anywhere else. Not because she was shy, but because of the misogynistic attitudes of the club owners. This particular club wasn't as objectionable as others, but for whatever reason, tonight she really wasn't into socializing much.

So, we decided to just veg by ourselves for awhile. After all, it wasn't as if we could leave, seeing as how we were on a boat in the middle of the Toronto harbor. So, we sat down in a corner of the dance floor room. If you refer back to the ASCII map and search for the 'w' and 's' in the Dance Floor room (oh, how fun, its a Where's Wade game!), you can see where we were sitting.

We chatted amongst ourselves - talking with Sue was always enjoyable, she's a wonderful interesting person. We were exploring her lack of enthusiasm (introspection being a wonderful thing). I should note that neither of us went to swingers clubs with any expectation of something happening. Having said that, there was always the hope in my mind that we'd find someone that she clicked with. After all, I can honestly say that I was more interested in her having sex with a male than I was interested in me having sex with a female. Sue didn't have the same obsessive need for communication with a prospective new partner, so it is easier for her to enjoy that kind of on-the-spot sexual dynamic. And helping Sue find partners she could have fun sexual experiences was something I was always enthused about.

We continued to talk. At one point, she got up to go to the bathroom. I hadn't really been paying attention to the dance floor, so I started looking around. I noticed one girl that I recognized from a previous time, one that I found very provocatively attractive due to her exotic look (I'm a big fan of exotic). I have no idea what her name is, so I'll call her Narissa. She was probably about 35 (I was 33 at the time), but her husband (whom wasn't visible, but whom I'd seen last time) was probably in his 50's. Anyways, Narissa was dancing with M (the female host of the event). You can see where she was dancing by looking for the 'x' in the Dance Floor room.

One of the things I find most irritating about the swingers dynamic is the bias towards bi females, and the rather common scene of two girls dancing together, then the males joining in behind their spouses, then some kissing between the girls, blah blah blah. It just seems so very highschool sometimes (in spirit, not in actual activity). In any event, girls dancing together at a swingers club has very little erotic appeal for me. On the other hand, while I was watching Narissa and M, Narissa noticed me watching them. And chose to watch me right back. In fact she started dancing "at" me, while looking at me, with M dancing behind her. Which was damn appealing. Eye sex on a boat - nothing wrong with that! Normally, I find prolonged eye contact far too intimate for interactions with strangers, but much of this is based on not knowing what the other person is thinking. However, I didn't find this eye contact uncomfortable at all. Much the opposite, I found it very distinctly and, if it weren't so dark, probably very noticeably, arousing.

This is a very memorable event for me among all of my (admittedly relatively few) swingers-club experiences. It is this kind of dynamic, where there is some *eroticism* involved, that I find most appealing, and that I am looking for. The previously described situation, in which the cute japanese girl was sucking the cute black boy's cock, was certainly interesting. But that situation wasn't nearly as actively arousing as this eye sex with Narissa was.

Sue came back some 10 minutes later - she had been chatting with some people after her bathroom break. I'd been involved in eye sex with Narissa most of that time. And was hard most of that time too. I told Sue about the experience, and we went back to talking amongst ourselves.

The events above have taken us about 4 hours into our 5 hour trip. Although I'd enjoyed the dynamic in the Lounge, and the eye sex here in the dance room, overall it was rather boring. And Sue was even more bored. We decided that a change of venue might help address our malaise, so we headed back upstairs for awhile.

The Upper Deck


In general, I do not shock very easily. I cannot remember very many situations where I have been so surprised that I was "stunned" for any amount of time. Nor, admittedly, was I "stunned" upon walking up the stairs. However, it *was* shocking, in an entirely pleasant, unexpected, and positive way. You know, in the "Oh my, I didn't expect this!" kind of way.

                                         #1: Wow!                
                                  |      x          fg|   \                            
                                  | T  T  T  T       h|    \                           
                                  | T                 | Bal \                          
                                  | T  T             w| cony |                         
                                  | T            c   s|     /                          
                                  | T  T  T  T    d   #    /                           

Take a look at the left-most rendition of the upper deck, entitled "#1: Wow!". We walked up the stairs and stood against the wall/patio-door in the positions marked by the 'w' and 's'. It was about midnight. There was a bright light source outside on the balcony that illuminated the room. Although the back part was a little shadowy, the part around us was very well lit. Which was useful from a voyeuristic perspective.

We noticed something a little bit odd as soon as we came up the ladder. There were probably about 20 people in this room all together, mostly sitting on the benches along the sides. But they weren't the noticeable part, being only dimly illuminated. Instead, in the corner marked by 'f', 'g', and 'h', there was something fairly attention-grabbing. The 'g' represents a girl who was sitting in a chair, with a skirt pulled up around her waist. 'f' represents a male who was standing in front of her. She was quite enthusiastically involved in sucking his cock, while stroking the cock of the second male, indicated by 'h', who was reaching down to finger her pussy. They were all clothed, although as already mentioned, the clothing was maybe a little disarrayed. They were probably about 1.5 meters away from us. Kinda noticeable.

So, Sue and I have suddenly kinda perked up, not even remotely expecting this when we walked upstairs. Nothing wrong with some group cock sucking, that's what I always say. Well, actually, I've never said that, but I think I'm going to start.

The amusing thing is, I don't remember seeing 'c', 'd' and 'e' when we came up the ladder (even though we could have touched them as we went by). But they must have been there, because we heard a snap, and some thumping and other frenetically related sounds to our left. Our eyes had been focused towards 'fgh', but our heads swivelled around to note that Derek (the male from the couple we'd been talking to earlier), marked by 'd' on the map, was in the midst of some rather energetic activities with a girl (marked by 'e'). The snap was from one of the plastic legs of the chair she was on breaking.

So, here Sue and I were, standing up against the pseudo-wall leading onto the balcony, with some interesting activities happen to both our left, and our right. A girl alternating between sucking two cocks on one side, and a boy very enthusiastically fucking a girl in a chair on the other side. I'm sure they weren't fucking when we walked past them, but they most definitely were fucking now. Wow, look at Derek go!

Cindy (marked by a 'c') was sitting on the floor behind Derek, looking somewhat forlorn. Keeping in mind my earlier concerns that Cindy was along for the ride, and that it was really Derek's idea, I was feeling concerned that she might be feeling jealousy or threatened or uncomfortable or something. I honestly don't know if my interpretation was correct, and could easily have been imagining it all, but I was concerned that she was feeling left out. Which was part of the reason why, after spending a minute to enjoy watching Derek demostrate what construction work can do for thrusting power, I leaned over and asked Cindy, "Can I lick your pussy?". Yeah, I know, not the most sophisticated line of dialog ever uttered. It did, however, seem appropriate in the context. After all, the other part of the reason why I asked is because she was cute, and I happen to have an excessively strong erotic association attached to going down on a girl. Doing so in front of a variety of spectators? Well, that's just a bonus.


                                     #2: Peach!                
                               |      x          fg|   \                             
                               | T  T  T  T       h|    \                            
                               | T                 | Bal \                           
                               | T  T            s | cony |                          
                               | T               wc|     /                           
                               | T  T  T  T    d   #    /                            

Oh boy! We get to switch to the next ascii map, entitled "#2: Peach!". Within this map, my oh-so-voyeuristic reader, you will note that Cindy is now against the wall, confortable ensconced in a chair similar to the one taking so much abuse behind us. To be honest, I don't even remember where the hell this chair appeared from - I don't think it was there when we first came up. Must have been magic.

It was a nice night outside. A full moon hovering overhead. The twinkling of stars in the heavens. The Toronto cityscape spread out in panoramic view, visible all around us. ... Hah! ... Like I fucking know whether the stars were out! Come on man! I pride myself on being a smart, considerate, interesting boy, but I can assure you, I was *not* looking out the windows admiring the cityscape or the stars or the moon :-)

I was, however, admiring something else. Cindy was wearing a knee-high skirt, if I recall correctly, although I honestly do not remember for sure. I do remember her settling herself into the chair, with her cute little derriere perched just back from the edge, and her lifting her skirt up for me. Now, I don't want to shock my readers, but you should know that she was ... gasp ... not wearing any underwear. Furthermore, she shaves very thoroughly. *gah*

Having the rather strong erotic association with oral sex that I do, I happen to find certain parts of the female form profoundly compelling. And although every one has their own beauty, some are more compelling than others. Just so you know, cindy had a truly beautiful pussy. How lucky was I?

I would like to be able to provide some more details on what was happening around me during this time, but I must admit, I have absolutely no clue. I know that Sue was behind me to my left, and that's about all I know about what was happening around me. I do, however, remember very clearly how Cindy's pussy looked. She was noticeable aroused, if you can believe it. *noticeably*. And *that* was erotic.

I remember how it felt when my tongue slid along her outer lips, and then how it felt as it slid between them. I remember the smoothness, the silkiness, the wetness. I remember what her clit looked like, and what it felt like, and how how it responded to my tongue and my nibbling and my fingertip. I remember what it felt like to wrap my lips around her clit, and how smoothly my finger slid into her. And above it all, I remember how *erotic* it was to be eating her peach.

I find that the right words can be incredibly evocative. You know, able to evoke, to draw out, to recreate. The word "peach" is a perfect example. During some recent discussions with a delightfully provocative girl, we ended up creating a mutually compelling shared erotic vocabulary (a truly enjoyable activity - you really should try it sometime). During this vocabulary development, the pussy-is-peach metaphor was explored, and developed, and expanded, and associated, and hyper-eroticized. It is such a wonderfully perfectly evocative word to convey the positivity I associate with pussy. It is just such an incredibly *erotic* act.

Back to Cindy's peach. I continued to explore, she continued to enjoy. However, to my sincere disappointment, external events conspired to cut short my ministrations. About 5 minutes into my peachy explorations, I felt a hand on my shoulder, and a male voice saying "Do you mind if she does that?". I looked back to see a small-statured, enthusiastically smiling latino male motioning towards Sue.

Now, this gets a little more complicated than you might at first think. Sue and I had many commonalities above and beyond a polyamorous outlook. One of them being that we both identified as straight, even though we both agreed that being bi would be "better". We were also both strong advocates of sexual diversity, alternative sexual orientations, and sexual equality. One of the things about the swinging community that we found frustrating/irritating/offensive was the deeply entrenched bias towards prefering/requiring bisexual females (and the equally strong bias towards inhibiting/precluding bisexual males). The swinging culture does NOT feel egalitarian. It feels biased towards bi females and straight males. And isn't it convenient that this fits perfectly with what males often fantasize about? Makes one feel like the claims that "women have the real power in the lifestyle" are somewhat inflated. The swinging community likes to claim that it is open-minded. I haven't seen it. But I'll keep an open-mind.

So, keeping these observations in mind, you can understand why I wasn't particularily happy with the male interrupting me with such patently self-serving requests. Sue and I had jokingly made a $1 bet with each other as to who would do something with a member of the same sex first, but neither of us expected anything to happen. After all, we happened to *like* members of the opposite sex.

Sometimes, however, it just takes the right situation. I glanced at Sue, who was willingly being led closer. Which was all I needed to know - Sue would certainly have stopped him if she wasn't willing.

So. Sue won the $1 bet.

While she was winning the bet, it seemed only right and proper that her pussy should garner some attention, so I was caressing, and teasing, and fingering her. A little while later, she paused in her explorations of that which darest not speak its name, and we started kissing. Which led, very soon after, to me putting her down on the floor. Poor Cindy, she kinda got left behind. I do feel bad about that.


		                  #3: Sue!
		           |      x          fg|   \                         
		           | T  T  T  T       h|    \                        
		           | T                 | Bal \                       
		           | T  T      sw      | cony |                      
		           | T                c|     /                       
		           | T  T  T  T    d   #    /                        

Sue was wearing a skirt (do you notice a theme anywhere here?). Sue was not wearing any underwear (do you notice a theme anywhere here?). Sue has a beautiful peach (yeah, themes rock!). I ate it.

I honestly do not know how long I went down on Sue. But I can tell you, having your partner lying on the white tile floor of a boat while you lick her pussy, *that* is erotic. Knowing that there are 20+ other people watching as I lick her pussy, *that* is erotic. Imagining how arousing it would be if I were one of the spectators, *that* is erotic. And most of all, imagining what it would be like for Sue in this situation. Her lying on a floor, surrounded by strangers (nice strangers though), her bare legs bared up to her hips, her partner licking her clit while sliding two fingers into her, just the way she likes it. Feeling exposed, feeling open, feeling the sexual energy in the room. Feeling the orgasm building. *That* is erotic.

Trying to connect with how she was feeling, and doing things to help her tap into the eroticism inherent in the situation. At one point, very conciously placing my hands beneath her knees and pushing them up towards her shoulders, curling her gently into a ball, her pussy exposed, the lips just slightly separated. Licking her in that position for a minute, knowing that she would get a rush from being seen by others in this position. Then moving on to other, more comfortable (tile isn't the best place for such things) positions. Trying to imagine what *she* would find most appealing, most arousing, most erotic, *that* was the most erotic part of all.

I cannot even begin to guess how long we stayed there - I have absolutely no sense of time related to it. I enjoyed it. Sue enjoyed it. I enjoyed it some more. Sue enjoyed it some more. At some point, she came. Hard. *That* was erotic. Imagining how arousing it would be from Sue's perspective, to be coming in front of a room full of people, *that* was erotic.

I would very much like to be able to tell you what was happening around me during all of this, but again, I have absolutely no clue. Amusingly, afterwards, Sue was describing some stuff that happened while I was eating Cindy's peach, and I was all envious that I missed it. Not that I would have exchanged going down on Cindy for the voyeuristic opportunities, but I sure would have preferred both. Some people are just never satisfied, eh?

Apparently, Narissa, the girl that I had previously engaged in eye sex with, also got her peach attended to. I would have loved to have watched. Would have preferred being involved, but watching would have been fun too. Sadly, although I think it is a very cruel thing for the universe to have decided on, it is a fact tht you cannot eat more than one peach at a time. I am happy to confirm, however, that you *can* indeed eat two different peaches one after the other. Nothing wrong with some group pussy licking, that's what I always say. Well, actually, I've never said that, but I think I'm going to start. :-)

Anyways, the boat was apparently already docked by the time all of this was wrapped up. I don't even remember us walking down the ladder, or off the boat. I do, however, remember seeing Derek and Cindy jumping into the SUV of Narissa and her husband. That's what an aggressive attitude does for you in swinger dynamics. Derek was on a mission, and damned if he didn't make sure his mission was successful. I'm sure he had fun with Narissa and her husband. I really hope that Cindy did too.

Sue and I went back to her place (she lived downtown T.O - how convenient!) and had yummy sex. I would have loved to have had sex on the boat, but the situation didn't allow for it. How sad. Maybe next time.


From: iisz
2006-09-17 01:54 am (UTC)
Whoo, a sexy story, and one where the details were paid more than lip service! ;) Yay!

Re bi girls vs. bi guys; It is eternally disappointing that bi guys still face so much bigotry from both gays and straights. Nothing wrong with bi boys making out, and yes, I have always said that. :)

Erotic language: my Mom always called a pussy a kinisch. You can imagine my surprise when I discovered at the Oregon State Fair, stoned on acid of course, that they were selling kinisches for 2 bucks and change. It turns out they are potato pancakes.

Voyeurism and exhibitionism: Yes, yes and most definitely yes. And no one should interupt you mid snack. That is just rude.

All the things you are going to start saying: I am envisioning a whole new world of t-shirts for you.

You could make a sex filter and ask which of your readers would like to be on it. Now, I am of course very shy and inexperienced, but I would be willing to read it. :)

You can't eat two pussies at once: What...what are you saying? Why have you dashed my dreams at my young and tender age! *sniff*
(Reply) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: metawade
2006-09-17 02:16 am (UTC)

re: lip service... oh, you are sooo funny!

re: bi boys... I totally agree. I'm especially disappointed at gay boys. I realize that many gay individuals pretend at biness for awhile, but it really seems like gay males believe that noone can possibly be anything but straight or gay. Oh silly! When persecuted people persecute, one starts wondering about humanities ability to evolve socially.

re: erotic language... funny! Must admit though, I *way* prefer peach to kinisch though. Pussies are much more peach like than potato-pancake like ;-)

re: voy/exh... I *agree*!!! He just wanted to see girl-girl action. But he was quite nice about it - Sue was amused by his sincere enthusiasm. But I wish I would have been able to continue.

re: t-shirts... yeah baby! Although the font would have to be smal, to fit them. "Nothing wrong with group pussy licking". Hmmm. There are more evocative ways of saying it though.

re: sex filter... yeah, I could. If I do, I'll consider adding you. But like you say, you may be a little too inexperienced for it.

re: two pussies... It is a cruel, cruel fact. The universe is *cold* man, *cold*!

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: aneyah
2006-09-17 02:23 am (UTC)
Honestly, this is the first... no, the SECOND time I've read through one of your posts. You *do* write prolifically. Not that that is bad, but intimidating from time to time. I think I will certainly have to read more, especially since the first one had me laughing (it was the story of your hometown), and this one has me really sad I am home alone this evening.

And the ascii arts was helpful for us visual-types. :)
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[User Picture]From: metawade
2006-09-17 03:03 am (UTC)

Hello aneyah, kind of you to drop by! I don't believe I've asked what your preferred symbolic reference thingee is. Do you prefer aneyah, Aneyah, Ms. Aneyah, Mistress, or something else entirely?

re: prolific ... I really have been trying to make my posts more bite-sized. In fact, this one was supposed to be bite-sized. Somehow, it simply never works out that way :-)

I assume that by intimidating you mean "oh christ, I do *not* want to read such a ridiculously long post!". Yeah, I totally understand. I'm amazed that so many people actually spend the time to do so - it really is very kind.

re: hometown ... Nice to hear that you laughed during my reminiscences about my hometown. I wrote that long ago, and it was quite fun doing so. It really is neat to be able to pull out a book that contains stories of every person who lived in the town. It is pretty funny though, because every other entry is 2 pages or less, and my is over 10 (and only half of it got published - size censorship again! :-)

re: sad ... Sorry to hear that you are alone this evening. I can very much relate. My apartment has been feeling especially quite since the cats went to live with my past-primary (Sue, from the above story).

re: visual-types ... yup, I thought it would be useful. Being a visual type myself, I knew I'd appreciate it. And it made it easier to write, having a visual focus.

P.S. I so very much love your userpic. When I first friended you, I spent time exploring the website from which it comes. I like your cropping better than the original. But it is a wonderfully erotic image.

I've been reading your posts lately - it really is enjoyable seeing things from very different perspectives.

Hope your evening is enjoyable, even if it is solitary.

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[User Picture]From: aneyah
2006-09-17 06:23 pm (UTC)


You can't even reply in small bites, can you?

As for what to call me, call me Aneyah. You're not my sub, you're not my Domme, your not a play partner - you're someone on the internet who I find/has found me interesting.

And yes, I've not been reading simply because of the shear volume of posts, besides which you give these lovely little snippets at the beginning which do a pretty decent job of summarizing! Hm, maybe a little more of the "teaser" and less of the "summary"?

And thankyou on the userpic. I absolutely *love* it. It symbolizes a lot to me. See, I wrote a post that held a lot of meaning for me, and because of that I needed a new icon, made specifically for that entry. I'm missing my photoshop program a LOT right now.
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[User Picture]From: metawade
2006-09-17 06:39 pm (UTC)

Re: *snicker*

No, apparently not :-)

Aneyah it is. Where does this name stem from? I like names that both sound and look nice. Aneyah does both.

I'm torn on the teaser vs summary issue. We'll see which way I go.

I can certainly understand putting effort into finding meaningful userpics. My concern with doing so is that if I have a semantics attached to something, but someone else does not, it is yet another vector by which miscommunication can occur. Personal preference thing, of course.

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[User Picture]From: aneyah
2006-09-17 06:48 pm (UTC)

Re: *snicker*

Aneyah, pronounced AHNE-yah, come from the Tales of Errantys, which honestly, I've never read other than this. But when I began this journal, I wanted something that represented the change and movement in my life. This worked, and I like the sound.

And frankly, I don't care how others interpret the pictures I use, because they are tied to my words, and although words are more specific than pictures, it is still the readers final interpretation that matters. But, as you say, personal preference.
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From: mammabearpa
2006-09-18 04:23 am (UTC)


Ummmmmm.... I am now not in the frame of mind to write a long reply but I will say this...
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[User Picture]From: metawade
2006-09-18 05:29 am (UTC)

Re: Uh....


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From: mammabearpa
2006-09-18 05:43 am (UTC)

Re: Uh....

Let's just say it is amazing how you can make the first few lines about a FRUIT seductive... expecially when your bf's nickname is Fig :)
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[User Picture]From: spiritboi
2006-09-18 07:42 am (UTC)

Three key randomnesses...


1) Bible-toting folks: it surprised me, when I started investigating homosexuality and poly for personal and theoretical reasons, that most Christians have no idea about the amount of sexual diversity in the Bible. Mind you, most Evangelicals or Fundamentalists (the movements are not the same) seem commited to reading monogamy and heterosexuality into practically everything...never mind. People should try reading the Song of Songs for a start. Not much married sex going on there so far as I can tell.

2) Hello, HOT, and I'm a gay boy! (I also sympathize to a large degree with queer theory, so whatever that says.)

3) Bi boys: I used to have a lot of problems with bi boys until I realised I could "do" poly comfortably. Once you get rid of the monogamite assumption, why not allow people to express themselves as they wish?

a. Most gay men do not experience any degree of flux in their sexual orientation, so they might have trouble understanding men who are the exception to this.

b. I think part of the fear directed at bi men from gay men has to do with the degree of choice associated with sexual orientation. The religious and political/philosophical right has put a lot of fear into gay men that if they experience flux in their orientations, they are required by God or social convention to be straight. So I bi man allegedly destabilizes the "involuntary" nature of sexual orientation.

c. For myself, I have reached the conclusion that for many--not all; perhaps not even most--people there *is* a strong degree of choice in both their orientations and their sexual behaviours--but this is NOT a problem. It's enough to say, "I experience my sexuality as a gift, and however I got here is ok, because I'm whole and happy."

Write on, Wade: your prolific length (interpret as you like, of course) is an inspiration!

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[User Picture]From: metawade
2006-09-18 12:39 pm (UTC)

Re: Three key randomnesses...

Hi Rob!

re: bible-toting... I will indeed need to read the Song of Songs; it sounds interesting. As for the "people carrying bibles" reference, do you feel that I am inaccurate in my assumption that most people who carry bibles will disapprove of the content of this journal entry?

And as an aside, my warnings are often written more from the perspective of enticement than actual warning. By warning away people who are traditionally associated with sexual conservatism, it presumably makes the sexually liberal person (who has negative feelings about that sexual conservatism and the judgement towards themselves it implies) more likely to be interested in reading the entry.

re: hot... Neat! Glad you liked it. As I mentioned in the entry, I have often been left disappointed by the actual amount of hotness in my swingers-club experiences, although this experience was something of an exception. And, in pondering other "bite-sized" sub-topics of the overall poly/swinger entry I'm working on, it is amusing to me how many experiences will probably sound quite provocative and interesting, even though I profess to have not had many interesting experiences. It really does boil down to the issue of expectation - although I've seen some interesting things at swingers clubs, I've simply expected to see much more.

I have not been to a swingers club since the supreme court ruling about swingers clubs. I would think that the ruling would have a significant impact on the degree of sexual activity that does take place at such events, but I may be entirely wrong. This will, however, need to wait until I have a partner who is interested in such activities.

re: bi boys... Yeah. I do appreciate that if one is immersed in the gay subculture, and *every* example of "I'm bi" turns out to actually be "I'm gay and not yet able to admit it", why one would start developing a disbelief in the existence of bisexuality. But the key point is "immersed in the gay subculture". Sure, I understand how psychologically relieving it can be to shut out the mainstream world and not have to deal with its intolerance, but making generalizations based on limited experience is obviously rather flawed. Cool that you've "seen the light" :-) What is the "monogamite assumption"?

WRT flux, I can see this facilitating the mind-set. Do you know of any bisexual males? Do gay males also believe that girls cannot be bisexual?

And yeah, the choice issue is a big thing. I can certainly understand why the gay community would be concerned about anything that emphasizes choice over hard-wiring.

There was recently a New Scientist article discussing this, that supports numerous other articles I've read. We humans like to simplify complex topics, so we like to believe that a particular characteristic is P% nature, 100-P% nuture, for some value of P. The gay community insists P is close to 100, the religious communit insists P is close to 0. But the research seems to be showing that the value of P varies dramatically, and that the *interesting* topic of research is in establishing the distribution function of this diversity. Some people have a sexual orientation almost entirely dictated by genes. Whereas others may be genetically wired for bisexuality, in which case their social environment will be the critical role in their eventual sexual orientation. prolific length... Ah, you haven't yet gotten to this entry, I see. :-) Your perspective on that matter will be of interest.

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[User Picture]From: spiritboi
2006-09-18 08:13 pm (UTC)

Re: Three key randomnesses...

re: bible-toting... I will indeed need to read the Song of Songs; it sounds interesting. As for the "people carrying bibles" reference, do you feel that I am inaccurate in my assumption that most people who carry bibles will disapprove of the content of this journal entry?

Not at all, actually, which is why I think people should take a broader view of the biblical tradition before expressing reservations (even if they are balanced and legit) with a scene like this.

What is the "monogamite assumption"?

Sorry, I sometimes forget that this term isn't in wide use even in the poly community. The monogamite assumption is that coupledom or monogamy represents a "high vocation" or "the optimal way" for humanity as a whole. I must confess that sometimes I use the term as a judgemental thing. If someone prefers monogamy but is willing to see that poly could be beneficial for many (without assuming any kind of immaturity on the part of the polyfolk) than that person is "monogamous". If they are interested in enforcing monogamy on people, because anything else is unhealthy, they're monogamites. :)

I'm also not sure that one needs to be involved in gay subculture in order to have a bias against bisexuality--there seems to be plenty of it in mainstream society. Bisexuality is often associated with immaturity in my opinion; it's the sense that "when you grow up or settle down" you'll be stable enough to consistently choose one gender over the other (and hopefully after that you'll find *the one* and settle down for, at least, a LTR of several years' duration--cultural monogamite stuff is a bitch, eh?).

WRT flux, I can see this facilitating the mind-set. Do you know of any bisexual males? Do gay males also believe that girls cannot be bisexual?

Yes, I personally know of two who are good friends of mine. They currently have more experience with guys than girls, mostly--I think--because of availability, as weird as that might sound. Some people would call them "bi-curious" for that reason, although I'm sure they'd have problems with that characterization. As one of them says, "I don't understand why I can't have both. They're completely different and beautiful in their own ways." And I say, all power to them, as long as good communication is a bedrock of all relationships.

As for the "matter of interest": I'll read that entry when I've done a couple more hours of schoolwork. ;)

In peace,
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[User Picture]From: diachrony
2006-09-24 12:52 am (UTC)
I must admit that while the word "peach" is one I already find erotic, you've certainly emphasized and even strengthened those sensual, erotic associations for me with this post.

Mmmmmmm ... peaches ...
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[User Picture]From: metawade
2006-09-24 01:19 am (UTC)

Hi Dio! (you prefer Dio or diachrony or PeachLover, or something else entirely?). Happy to hear that positive associations have been further associated!

Ah, indeed - we apparently share a love of peach.

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[User Picture]From: diachrony
2006-09-24 01:39 am (UTC)
Dio is in general LJ use among my friends - and you can thank M for that; she came up with it years ago and it stuck (and I do like it). Some folks even call me that in person now since they're so used to it from LJ!

Your journal entries are a welcome time-suck, by the way. Good thing I love to read, and to be educated. :)
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[User Picture]From: metawade
2006-09-24 02:22 am (UTC)

Well then, Dio it is! Happy to know I can help others waste time :-) Not sure about the educational potential, but I've enjoyed LJ a great deal so far.

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