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Eroticism [Aug. 11th, 2006|10:57 am]
Wade
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In which Wade talks about the importance of eroticism, tells a naughty story, and clarifies why the phrase "I want to fuck your mind" is NOT at ALL the same as "I want to fuck with your mind".

[Warning: This journal entry is ridiculously long. And I'm not even remotely happy with the discussion or coverage. It turns out that eroticism is a really big topic. More interesting posts to follow sometime. ]

Hmmm. Sex is a Big Deal nowadays. I mean, it has always been a big deal, but the global village, the "sex sells" mantra, the world-wide obsession with porn, it all adds up to sex being the focus of maybe a little too much attention nowadays. Or maybe it isn't that there is too much focus on sex, but rather, there is too little focus on eroticism. Maybe there isn't too much focus on the physical (after all, the physical aspects of sex are pretty darn enjoyable!), but there definitely is too little focus on the mental aspects.

Of course, one person's "too much" is another persons starvation, so this is all relative. And what is and is not considered erotic is also very subjective. So, this here journal entry is going to involve me babbling about what I find erotic. However, the more lascivious amongst my vast readership (of 2) who are on the prowl for explicit sex talk may want to instead check out some of my (forthcoming) postings, since this entry won't be all that hard-core. But then again, hard-core is rather subjective too, now isn't it :-)

So, let us start with a definition. What is eroticism? My first impulse was to distinguish it from erotica. And my second impulse was to look up a definition. Since wikipedia is my first stop nowadays for everything, I decided to see if it had an entry, even though I wasn't sure it would. But 'lo and behold, it does. And, amusingly enough, the very first thing it does is distinguish eroticism from erotica :-) That's because Wikipedia and I, we go way back. We are getting married later on this year. But don't worry, I'm poly.

Ok, so wikipedia tells us that eroticism is:

an aesthetic focused on sexual desire, especially the feelings of anticipation of sexual activity. It is not only the state of arousal and anticipation, but also the attempt through whatever means of representation to incite those feelings."

That seems like a pretty good start. Sexual desire? Check! Feelings? Check! Anticipation? Check! Inciting feelings? Check! Anticipation is a huge part of eroticism. But maybe the word anticipation isn't exactly right, because that word does somewhat imply that what is being anticipated will actually occur. Let's not preclude things that do not occur from the realms of eroticism. Sometimes prolonging the anticipation, not knowing whether it will happen, or even knowing it will not happen, but still feeling that sexual arousal, can all be incredibly erotic.

I have a long, and ever growing, list of specific things that I find erotic, but there is this overarching description that applies to almost everything that I identify as erotic: eroticism. That might appear rather circular, and thus rather ineffectual, but let me explain. In the wikipedia definition of eroticism, it mentions "the attempt, through whatever means of representation, to incite those [sexual] feelings [in others]." Clarification added by me. The point being that arousing others is erotic. Fucking is sexual, and is of course fun. But arousing others is erotic. And, without denigrating fucking in any way, I must admit that I actually prefer the erotic stuff. Or, more to the point, I find sex and eroticism incredibly appealing, but find sex without eroticism distinctly unfulfilling.

Something About Mary

Let me tell you a story as an example of something from my past that I found very erotic. You should note that there are some sexual details in this here story, so if you are the shy type, you should skip over this section and go to the next one. I'll wait for you to skip. Do da doo.... Do da doo.

Ok, so, for the rest of you pervs intellectually interested readers, just a clarification that this is a long and detailed account of what, superficially, is a rather insigificant sexual experience. Keep in mind that the goal here is to provide some concrete examples of what I find erotic. If you are looking to get all hot and bothered, it probably won't be happening here.

Now, let me set up the situation. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the phone equivalent of web-personals. A company provides a service whereby you phone into a specific number and acquire a mailbox/passcode. You can then phone in at any time and enter your mailbox/passcode, and then record your own voice ads, listen to voice ads made by others, send messages, listen to messages from others, talk live with others who are also on the phone system currently, etc. Not surprisingly, the phone systems have both non-sexual and sexual "sides", just like the web-personals do. Individuals just ignore those people who aren't looking for similar things. Personally, I quite enjoy talking to people and getting to know them both non-sexually and sexually, so I am comfortable with both "sides" of these phone systems.

Having described what a phone system is, let's get to the actual story. Sometime back in 2001, I was chatting with a 21yo girl named Mary on a local phone system. We talked on a few occasions and the conversations were usually about both sexual and non-sexual interests. As an aside, I do find talking to someone about their sexual interests, past experiences, fantasies, etc. very erotic in its own right. And find it extremely erotic to explore mutually compelling "variations on a theme" and come up with new ideas/activities/fantasies. Exploring existing fantasies, and developing new fantasies, is arousing. And arousing (others) is erotic! And eroticism is arousing. And so on...

In an apparent (but not actual) non-sequitur, I'll admit, here in my "private" journal, that I have some anger towards males. I'll also admit that my anger is directed towards "typical males" (as defined by females) and that this creature may be a small proportion of all males. I tend to develop more friendships with females than males, but my close male friends certainly don't fit the "typical male" mold, so I know there are at least some "non-typical" males.

My anger towards these pseudo-males stems from what I see as (some) males prioritizing their own self gratification over the well-being of others; a philosophy that is very offensive to me. One of the many unfortunate effects this self-centered attitude has is to make (most) females much more cautious about exploring their own sexual interests because they have been hurt or worse by one of these pseudo-males in the past, and/or have heard cautionary tales from friends. Yet another ramification is that females often assume that once you let a male go a certain "distance" (to use the rather objectionable metaphors of passive permissiveness), they will want to, and pressure, and insist on going "all the way", even if you've established concrete boundaries beforehand. And this in turn means that females often do not feel safe expressing interest in exploring non-intercourse sexual activities, because of a real doubt that boundaries will be respected. Of course, if the individual is looking for intercourse-like activities, this isn't an issue. But I think that more females would enjoy exploring the erotica potential in not having actual sex on a particular date, but doing sexual things, if they believed that males were capable of it. Which of course they are. It is the pseudo-males that have the problems, by definition.

So, back to my story. During my discussions with Mary, I was explaining all of this stuff; how I enjoyed the erotic side of things, was irritated with pseudo-males conditioning females to doubt that boundaries would be maintained, the concomitant inhibition on the exploration of non-intercourse sexual activities that they might find interesting, etc. etc.

Being the super-trustworthy person that I am, Mary and I developed a real rapport relatively quickly. Honest discussion leads to mutual trust being developed, and the more trust one has, the more comfortable one is sharing more personal and private interests. And the more personal ones interests, the more "real" they are. And the "real" a sexual interest is, the more erotic I find it. No matter what the interest is, whether or not it is an interest that I actively also have (noting as an aside that in real life I rarely encounter individuals with sexual interests I don't also have), it is erotic. Because knowing "real" people, rather than masks and facades, is intimate and compelling and erotic. Knowing the real kinks, the real arousals, the things most people do not know about the person, that is erotic.

Oh. I hope you didn't really expect me to continue without more side-tangents, because here is another one. One of the nice things about getting to know someone by talking is that one uses words to talk. Shocking observation, eh? Let me expand. Words are important to me. Words have power, words have meaning, words have feeling, words have memories. This is true in all contexts, and is especially true of sexually laden words. Certain words and phrases are powerfully erotic, others ... not so much. But everyone has different associations, different preferences, different erotic assignments to different words. Language is profoundly subjective, and communication works when this subjectivity is taken into account. It is important to establish one anothers associations with various sexually explicit (or euphimistic) words/phrases so that a mutually erotic vocabulary can be used. And just this discussion can itself be powerfully erotic!

Back to the main story. During maybe our third discussion, we were exploring things that we had never done, but really wanted to try in real life. We knew about a variety of each others "theoretical" sexual interests, but we all know there is a difference between theory and practice, right? She mentioned, somewhat shyly, that she found the idea of watching a male "entertain himself" very appealing.

Yes. You guessed it. Another side tangent. I have noticed that (many) males are much more interested in "showing off" than (many) females are in being shown off to. How many times have males sent a picture of "themselves" to a female, unaware that the female felt it was unsolicited, inappropriate and/or uninteresting? I appreciate that for many females, male genitalia just isn't all that erotic, and that in general, eroticism is more gestalt-ish than visual (so voyeuristic activities aren't necessarily all that appealing). And that many females don't get much out of this particular form of voyeurism because of the rather heavy-handed, (subjectively) crude and self-centered approach that many males take.

Back to the story. Knowing all of this about male/female exhibitionism dynamics, I was curious as to what Mary had in mind, what about it she found erotic, and all that. And the discussion about the details, about what she did and did not find erotic, was, in and of itself, very erotic. There is sooo much potential for sexual eroticism in the small details, the minutia of mutual sexual interest. And it often gets missed in the mad rush towards the "low hanging fruit" of vanilla ice-cream intercourse. Nothing wrong with vanilla, but chocolate is good too! And so are innumerable other flavors. And so is savoring the little multi-colored sprinkly bits on top of the ice-cream before jumping into the ice-cream itself!

So, now we get to the oh-so-shocking details of this little story 'o mine. Mary and I decide to meet after talking on the phone on three occasions. We were meeting to talk, and possibly exploring this particular mutual interest. We had exchanged pictures before this, so we knew what each other looked like (she was very cute, in case you are wondering). She lived near a Tim Hortons, and suggested we meet there, so we did. Now, I'm not an introverted guy at all, but I do appreciate that others can be somewhat shy (Mary was). I also happen to really, really like that nervous butterfly-ish feeling one gets when doing something out of the ordinary, and especially like knowing when others are feeling the same thing. This was going on big time between the two of us. We chatted about lots of things, both sexual and non-sexual. I have this penchant for alternating back and forth between sexual and non-sexual topics, and seeing how people react. I use it as a means of gauging the comfort level of others, as a means of learning about the "real" person, and as a means of building suspense, all rolled into one. And it is always titillating to be talking about explicitly sexual things in a public venue (quietly, and with circumspection, of course), and Mary was both somewhat flustered and somewhat aroused. And guess what? That is erotic.

About an hour after we first met, having had a thoroughly enjoyable conversation spanning lots of things, I asked her if she would be interested in exploring her voyeuristic interests, making it clear that she should feel no pressure to do so whatsoever. Actually, by this time I knew very well what she found appealing in the way of sexual vocabulary, so I said it somewhat differently. I'm avoiding providing the exact details here because I don't happen to know what you, my oh-so-bored-wishing-wade-would-hurry-up reader, are comfortable with in the way of erotic vocabulary.

So, I asked her if she would be interested. Just asking her this question was adrenaline inducing, super-intense, and powerfully erotic. Not because this was a first time experience for me (it wasn't). Rather, because it was a first time experience for her, and it was something she was very aroused by. And, as we'll see later, arousing others is the most erotic. This is a key point. Even if she had said "No, not today", I know that she would have experienced that wonderful tingly adrenaline surge of erotic possibility. And knowing she would feel it was what made asking so erotic. Almost all of my erotic wiring is based on imagining (hopefully accurately) how the other person is feeling. Which is why it is so important to me that I understand where someone is coming from, sexually, before I feel comfortable pursuing sexual interactions with them.

It so happens that Mary did not say no. She said "Yes". And that was erotic. We discussed options. I made it very clear that she was able to establish whatever additional boundaries she wanted (we had established before meeting that no intercourse would be happening), and we eventually decided to go for a drive in my car to look for a safe place to explore our naughty little plan. I spotted a number of possibilities, but she wasn't happy with them, wanting someplace much more secluded. We discussed the possibility of going outside the city borders.

Which leads me to yet another side tangent. You poor reader, so hard done by: I have a very serious dilemma when it comes to situations like the one facing me in this story (going outside the city limits). I really am aware that females have to be concerned about their safety, with all of the appalling statistics about rape and non-consentual sexual activity, or the unpleasantness associated with stopping these things from happening. And so, when I suggest something like "we could go outside the city limits", I really am torn. I know I am completely trustworthy, but I also know that she cannot know that. And that in general, encouraging her to do this isn't "right", exactly because she cannot know that I am trustworthy. More importantly, by offering, if she accepts, I am implicitly condoning and encouraging her to do the same thing again, possibly with someone less trustworthy. I really would like to know whether or not males, in general, are trustworthy. Any opinions?

Once again, back to the main story. Mary agrees that going outside the city limits might be a good idea. I discuss my concerns. She tells me to stop worrying. We go for a drive in the country. And, after maybe 15 minutes of driving and chatting (mostly platonically, you over-anxious lech you) we find this perfect little spot. Eerily perfect, and puzzlingly out of place. On a dead-end road between farmsteads, a small little rustic parking area with room for about four cars, hidden amongst a little forest of trees. Noone anywhere remotely nearby. Pretty scenery. Birds chirping. Sunshine spilling. If it wasn't for the fact that I accidentally found the exact same spot years later (during a completely innocent platonic drive), I could almost image having imagined it all, cause it was so perfect. And it was erotic.

I mentioned above that the drive to this little glade of naughtiness was mostly platonic. We chatted. Again, about both sexual and non-sexual things. I commented that I found our conversation very arousing. She noticed (without being able to "see", if you know what I mean). She spent much of her time during the drive noticing. I noticed that she was noticing. That was noticeably erotic. And made things continue to be noticeable the entire drive.

We arrive. Here we are, sitting in the car amongst this beautiful backdrop. A very cute, petite girl, wearing black slacks and a white blouse. A somewhat cute boy (thats me!), wearing khaki's, a shirt, and some sandals. Us both enjoying the nervous anticipation of the moment. Me making sure she was still actively interested in continuing. Yes, yes, I know that too much communication can dampen sexual tension, and that I should relax and "go with the flow" more often. But self-interest is NOT more important than the well-being of others. Besides, my ability to appreciate the intensity of the eroticism inherent in the situation is based entirely on knowing that she is actively interested. She was. And that was erotic.

I took off my shirt. A hot summer day. A slight breeze blowing. A bee buzzing by on its merry way to collect pollen... I am amusing myself with poetic silliness. Stretching things out. Cause I know you are just trying to get to the naughty bits. Makes me laugh. Anticipation is erotic.

I asked if she wanted me to undo my shorts, or whether she wanted to do it herself. She noticed certain things. She placed her hand on what she was noticing. She wanted to be the one to undo my shorts. And did. I slid my shorts down, and off (I had removed my sandals long ago). Nude. Well, since the distinction between nude and naked probably involves whether certain noticeable (or so I like to believe) parts are noticeable or not, I suppose, more accurately, naked. She looked. That was erotic.

I told myself jokes entertained myself. She watched. We talked. Contrary to our previous conversations, which usually alternated between non-sexual and sexual topics, this time the conversation did not alternate. It was all about macroeconomics. Oh, no, wait. Ok, it was all about sexual fantasies. And that was erotic.

We continued doing this for 20 minutes. I happen to be a huge fan of self-teasing. Some call it tantric sex, but I don't have any special training or a tantric diploma or anything, so I just call it self-teasing. Orgasms (usually) last seconds. The buildup, with proper care and handling, can last hours. And that is erotic.

During this 20 minutes, there were times where Mary was content to watch (and listen, and talk), and there were times where she was inclined to be more proactively involved. She was rather shy. She was quite aroused. She has very nice petite hands. They look nice. They feel nice. That was erotic.

During our past conversations, we had talked about positions we like (of course). The issue of positions came up again during this discussion. And I had this little stroke (hee hee) of genius, and suggested that we "act out" our favorite positions. With her fully clothed, and me ... less so. Well, ok, me nude. Well ok, me naked. very naked. throbbingly naked, even. I had a blanket in the trunk, and suggested that I put it down on the grass near the car. She thought this was a great idea. That was erotic.

We stepped out of the car, I retrieved the blanket and spread it out, and we started taking turns suggesting positions that we found appealing and wanted to simulate. All the traditional ones, of course: missionary. doggy. spoon. riding. reverse riding (ponder the subtle and weird variations, and you'll realize that many of them are hindered by one of the individuals being fully clothed :-) The contrast between her being completely clothed, and me being without clothes, of me touching and caressing her without actually touching or caressing her, of us both simulating various activities, that was incredibly erotic.

I wanted to show her an especially favorite position of mine. I led her over to the back of the car, and lifted her onto the trunk. She wrapped her arms around my neck. I slid my arms under her knees and down to her slacks-encased little posterior. We stepped away from the car, her resting in my arms, her legs spread around me. I suggested that she lean back, so that her arms were fully extended while still being clasped around my neck. Suggested that she look down, and watch. I lifted her, very slowly, away from my body. Then equally slowly "lowered" her towards my body. She become very noticeably aroused. The contrast between her being fully clothed, and me not being clothed. All that was erotic.

We went back to the blanket and continued to explore positions and otherwise simulating fun erotica activities without actually engaging in the activities (which isn't to imply that what we did do wasn't fun, because it most definitely was!). In fact, it was erotic.

Then, after maybe 10 minutes of this, she asked, rather shyly, if it was ok if we tried "that one position" again. The one with me holding her up, her arms and legs around me, my arms below her knees holding her bum, lifting her on and off of me. Knowing that she was very aroused by that position, knowing that she wanted to try it again, that her arousal was stronger than her shyness, that was erotic.

Eventually, we decided it was time to head back into the city. We got back into the car. I did not put my clothes back on. Mary had remained fully clothed the entire time we were playing. On the drive home, Mary and I took turns "entertaining me". That was erotic.

We arrived back at Tim Hortons and I walked her (by now clothed) to her car. We both went to our (different) homes. I had very much enjoyed the experience. Partly because it was arousing to be so exhibitionistic. But primarily because I knew, without doubt, that Mary had also found it incredibly arousing. Would I have been interested in going further? Certainly. Do I think she was interested in going further? Most likely. That is, if I had suggested doing more than we had, it is very likely that she would have agreed. Especially when we were simulating the "standing lift" position. But that wasn't the point. For one thing, it was outside the boundaries of what we had discussed before meeting. And for another, there was no reason to rush it. It wasn't necessary to go further for it to be memorable. In fact, in a rather counterintuitive but real sense, had we gone "further", the experience may not have been as memorable as it ended up being. It was a unique experience, and unique experiences are always memorable. If we had ended up having sex, it wouldn't have been as unique. Maybe more physically pleasurable, but not necessarily any more erotic! Had Mary suggested going further, I would have been most happy to do so, but I doubt I would have let it proceed to intercourse; again, there was no reason to rush it. And I am really happy with the way it ended, because I knew beyond doubt that Mary would have no regrets whatsoever, and would remember the experience positively. And that was very satisfying in its own right. Self-interest is NOT more important than the well being of others, and it is better to err on the side of caution than not.

The Sexual Gradient

Another definition of eroticism. Take everything you like about sex. Now subtract out the physical parts. To me, that which is left is eroticism. And I realize more and more just how important the erotic side of things are for me. The physical aspects of sex are truly delicious, but they are delicious because of the mental aspects. Without a mental connection, there is this mobile-masturbation-device kind of dynamic going on, and that takes all the fun out of interacting with another person! This isn't to say that I'm universally down on spontaneous sex, or even the cliched sex-on-the-first-date (as long as it is mutually consentual). In fact, that sort of instant-chemistry gotta-have-you-now dynamic can have its own eroticism. And yet, it's not something I usually choose. First times (in all their wonderous diversity) only come along once, and I think there is more erotic potential in savoring the buildup than there is in rushing in. Nothing against people who do, just a personal preference.

To explain my thoughts on this more clearly (yeah, right!), let me propose a thought experiment. Please pick two different sexually interesting activities/fantasies that you have not yet fulfilled. Go ahead, I'll wait.... Do da doo, do da doo....

For the purposes of illustration, I'm going to pick two example interests. You will, of course, replace these example interests with your own particular fantasies. Oh, and please note that I am in no way implying that I personally could possibly be remotely interested in either of these hot shocking activities - just examples!:

  1. fun sexual adventures in the changing room of some posh clothing store.
  2. a male-female-male threesome.

Ok, now that you have your two sexual interests in mind, consider whether you find one of them more erotic than the other (I'll leave the definition of "more erotic" up to you). If you've picked two interests that are "equally" erotic, then discard one and pick another, until you find two that have a difference in eroticism. Its kinda the entire point of this thought experiment, so ya gotta do it. I know, I know it is soooooo much work reading Wade's entries.

Now that you have two sexual interests in mind, one of which is "more erotic" than the other, consider the following question: If you had the opportunity to choose which of these two interests/fantasies you were going to participate in first, which one would you pick?

To tie things back to our example fantasies, let's assume that our hypothetical me person finds both of these examples very appealing, but finds the threesome more erotic than the semi-public sex.

Now the next question. Did you decide to engage in the more erotic one first, or the less erotic one first, and why did you? I've posed this question to many people, and have received both answers, with varying reasons. But hey, this is my journal, not theirs, so I'm going to talk about my answer, and my reasons, k?

Hands down, always, I would choose to participate in the less erotic one first. Simply because I can imagine that participating in the more erotic one first might lessen the overall eroticism of the other activity, whenever it occurs. I'm not implying that performing the more erotic activity first will make the other one completely non-erotic, nor even implying that it will lessen the eroticism by a dramatic amount. But it might lessen it somewhat. On the other hand, if I participate in the "less" erotic one first, I don't run this risk and get to savor the most eroticism possible. And hey, eroticism is worth savoring!

Let's look back at my experience with Mary, which gives us another concrete example. Suppose we had picked, as our two interests, the following: 1) watching someone entertain themselves, and 2) have sexual intercourse with someone. These are at a "milder" scale than our last example, but in some ways they highlight my point better. Image that Mary and I had had sex, then on a different occasion, done the exhibitionism thingee. Now image the opposite - we do the exhibitionism thingee, then later (some other time) have sex. Which one leads to the most eroticism? For me (not necessarily for you, of course) it is very clearly the case that doing the exhibitionism sometime after having already had sex would be much, much less erotic than doing the exhibitionism first, then having sex.

I appreciate that for some, this might sound like a ridiculously analytical way of treating something that should be inherently spontaneous, carefree, go-with-the-flow and all that stuff. But it doesn't feel analytical to me, even if it sounds that way. It isn't about rational thought, it is about hedonism, about wanting to maximize our overall erotic enjoyment. Contrary to popular belief, rational thought is NOT at odds with eroticism. Smart people make better lovers. That's my position, and I'm sticking to it!

Mind Sex

I know, I know, this is a ridiculously long journal entry. I'm almost done. I just wanted to comment on a phrase that I find quite evocative, but which always needs a little bit of clarification. I have commented to past partners, "I want to fuck your mind". Which captures the more visceral aspects of eroticism quite nicely. But I always end up feeling a need to clarify that I did not say "I want to fuck with your mind". There is a big difference. Eroticism isn't even a little bit about game playing, deception, trickery, or any of that stuff. It is all about honesty, and exploration, and a mutual appreciation to not only push boundaries, but also add boundaries, and explore the eroticism that comes from them.

And one of the nice things about fucking someone's mind is that it can be done on LJ. No body needed. That cums later.

LinkReply

Comments:
From: longhairedbum
2006-08-11 05:09 pm (UTC)
What's fascinating about a post like this is how it lets me peek into the mind of a natural extrovert. It's so alien to me! :)
(Reply) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: metawade
2006-08-11 05:19 pm (UTC)
Who me? I'm a shy little wall flower! Never say a peep!

:-) I take it your MBTI starts with 'I'?

Out of curiosity, what about the posting demonstrates natural extroversion? I can see it demonstrating natural exhibitionism :-) But natural extroversion? Hmmm, although I suppose extroversion and exhibitionism might be coorelated :-)

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
From: longhairedbum
2006-08-11 05:30 pm (UTC)
I'm an INTP ;)

Hmm...perhaps I simply associate extroversion with the kinds of activities you describe here -- confidence in progressing socially, sexually forward, etc. The methodical and enthusiastic way you approach your sexual encounter with Mary is what fascinated me the most.

I feel like us introverts experience a lot more self-doubt socially than you extroverts do, but maybe that's me generalizing based upon my own perspective.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: metawade
2006-08-11 06:20 pm (UTC)

Consider checking out your Big 5 results - the extra factor and all the subfactors can provide interesting information.

And you might be generalizing too much. If any "extroverts" actually end up reading this rather sillyily long entry, they might be thinking "that wade character is serious fucked, man". Especially the "methodical" part - I don't think that is an extrovert quality, just a wadeism. People just don't seem to appreciate the wonders of rule-based sexual exploration :-)

And yes, I do suspect that social self-doubt is correlated with ones degree of introversion. But oftentimes, extroversion isn't "natural". It really is true that you start by faking it, and it just ends up getting easier over time. And there are many social situations where I do not feel at all comfortable. Striking up a conversation with an attractive girl in a bar/club is very difficult for me, for many reasons.

  1. Basing my interest solely on physical attraction seems so damn shallow,
  2. I have real difficulty distinguishing primary from secondary sounds, making communication in clubs very difficult,
  3. I am excessively concerned about not making others feel akward and uncomfortable.

Social interactions are just plain difficult for everyone. But I do suspect that they are more difficult for introverts.

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: vettha
2006-08-11 07:34 pm (UTC)
I'm an ENFP, and I've always considered my extroversion to hinge on the fact that I *need* people around to recharge more often than I need solitude to recharge.... in fact almost to the exclusion of needing to be alone. (Not that it never happens, but when I do manage to get alone time I've been craving, I usually end up realizing that what I've really wanted was alone time with one or a couple of specific people that I haven't been getting.)

Just from what I know of Beloved Introverts in my life, they seem to hinge their Introvert identity on the fact that they NEED to be alone sometimes in order to restore their foundations.

As for your post.... "Besides, my ability to appreciate the intensity of the eroticism inherent in the situation is based entirely on knowing that she is actively interested. She was. And that was erotic."

Um, yeah.

I don't care what sex my partner is, it's all about their arousal.... I'm not a musician, but for years the only way I could put it to words was that when I take a lover, I want to learn to play their body like a musical instrument... and you make a very good point about how it's even more about their mind than their body.... (wondering if that emerging awareness in me is why I dropped that phrase...)

:) On the one hand, you're too cerebral for me to completely feel like you've hit the nail of my own... philosophy/approach/etc on the head... or maybe that's not it. You're more linguistically based, which is actually quite useful for me because I am visual (I draw), and linguistic people always help me put words to things. And you're right, words are powerful, amazing, and oh so very erotic things...
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: metawade
2006-08-11 07:58 pm (UTC)

Hello J, thanks for stopping by. Please let me know whether you prefer if I refer to you as J, your name, your handle, etc. After all, words are important, but names are even more important :- )

I've seen others who have that form of extraversion too. I'm quite puzzled by my own, because I am very energized by being around others, but am almost too comfortable being by myself for very long periods of time. But I think it is just that I've extended the definition of "socialize" to include phone or online interactions. Much of my recent LJ obsession probably stems from a need to recharge my extrovert batteries.

And as you say, introverts often need to be alone to recharge their introvert batteries.

Yup. Its All About The Arousal. And you can always change your phrase to "I want to learn to play your mind like a musical instrument"? :-) But the physical reference is admittedly more evocative.

Finally, believe me, I don't at all feel like I've hit the nail on my own philosophy either - words are powerful, but not nearly powerful enough to accurately describe what we all are really *feeling* inside.

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: vettha
2006-08-12 03:11 am (UTC)
Jen, please. (Vettha and Jentle work too... not J... I think in this case I want Jen. Thanks for asking.) :)

I absolutely consider phone and online venues as socialization. True, they're nothing like in person.... but in person is nothing like phone or online either. There is... a certain charm in exploring different ways of interacting with people.

I was thinking later that I wasn't entirely fair about your wordiness - trying to explain something that defies description in an essay format will certainly require a lot of words.
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[User Picture]From: metawade
2006-08-12 10:02 am (UTC)

Hey Jen. Oh, I suspect everyone considers phones and internet as socializing. But not every extrovert finds that they recharge their extrovert batteries. maybe.

Fear not, I was not thinking "hey, Jen is being unfair". I really agree with you - the article ended up getting dominated by the Mary story. I left it because it does provide a vehicle for highlighting some erotic things, but the story addresses a very specific situation, and there is sooooo much more that could be addessed.

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[User Picture]From: irresistiblyred
2006-08-11 07:02 pm (UTC)
I hung on and read the whole thing... well, 1 part before lunch and 1 part after...

very intriguing.. lol... you perv ;)
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[User Picture]From: metawade
2006-08-11 07:50 pm (UTC)

Hey sexy! Kind of you to hang on - I do realize it was excessively long.

And hey, this is a public journal. Don't tell people I'm a perv; they have no clue! :-)

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[User Picture]From: abandonbrandon
2006-08-12 11:52 pm (UTC)
great post! i was even "noticeably excited" at one point!

so, uh...whatever happened w/mary?
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[User Picture]From: metawade
2006-08-13 01:13 am (UTC)

Oh my! Noticeably excited is good. But no details on which point?

Hmmm. I'm not sure how to summarize what happened with Mary. We met again awhile later and explored some further teasing and oral, no intercourse. I was being rather cautious because I wasn't sure she really knew what she was looking for. She was involved in a few other casual sexual relationships and some of her actions and experiences made me feel that further sexual interaction was maybe not in her best interests. Always better to err on the side of caution.

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From: iisz
2006-08-17 10:03 am (UTC)
Okay, a few days late here, and not enough time here to read the whole thing right now, but here's the beginning of my two bits.

>>My anger towards these pseudo-males stems from what I see as (some) males prioritizing their own self gratification over the well-being of others; a philosophy that is very offensive to me. One of the many unfortunate effects this self-centered attitude has is to make (most) females much more cautious about exploring their own sexual interests because they have been hurt or worse by one of these pseudo-males in the past, and/or have heard cautionary tales from friends. Yet another ramification is that females often assume that once you let a male go a certain "distance" (to use the rather objectionable metaphors of passive permissiveness), they will want to, and pressure, and insist on going "all the way", even if you've established concrete boundaries beforehand. And this in turn means that females often do not feel safe expressing interest in exploring non-intercourse sexual activities, because of a real doubt that boundaries will be respected. Of course, if the individual is looking for intercourse-like activities, this isn't an issue. But I think that more females would enjoy exploring the erotica potential in not having actual sex on a particular date, but doing sexual things, if they believed that males were capable of it. Which of course they are. It is the pseudo-males that have the problems, by definition.

Today at the park, matildablue was bitching about boys who claim we're teases if we don't "go all the way" (well, not me. I don't start something I don't intend to finish. I'm reliable that way ;)). I agree with her that this is annoying, the idea that we owe anyone sex just because they get hot, and only half jokingly brought up all the guys we've been with who didn't bring us to orgasm, could we claim they were just teasing us? Could I now go back and demand they finish what they started now?

I would like, at this time, to suggest that porn writing not be something you pursue. A person could explode before you get to the juicy bits. ;) And geez, a bit more vivid detail wouldn't *kill* you would it?

Yes, seeing someone else aroused is extremely erotic.

Lastly, you dirty boy! I had no idea of the opportunities that await people at Tim Horton's. I almost never go to one, but now I have an urge for an iced cap.

And , oh yeah:
>>And I had this little stroke (hee hee) of genius, and suggested that we "act out" our favorite positions.

Ga-roan. You are sick. You must have swollen glans.

:P
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[User Picture]From: metawade
2006-08-22 06:27 am (UTC)

I too am many days late responding to your response - thanks for commenting.

re: matildablue ... well, you can assure matildablue that there are some males who most definitely do not feel that females owe them anything just because the male gets aroused. That said, some mutual communication on what the boundaries are is a very good idea for both (all) people involved. And this "concious" discussion of boundaries happens far too rarely. And is just as much the responsibility of the female to bring up as it is the males. And to answer your question. Yes.

re: don't quit my day job ... poor Iris, looking for smut and getting the soft sell. I did warn you right up front that if you were looking for lasciviousness, youd' cum to the wrong place, now didn't I! I found the soft sell rather amusing, personally.

re: someone else aroused ... more than anything else in the whole wide world.

re: dirty boy ... I take no responsibility for any activities you may find yourself involved in related to Tim Hortons. I am not affiliated with Tim Hortons in any way....

re: genius ... sometimes the puns are embarassingly heavy-handed, but even they can be worth a smile.

P.S. I very much appreciate people who appreciate plays on words - yours make me laugh. I'm going to start using the following double/triple entendre to acknowledge your puns, etc. Admittedly, it pisses me off that I haven't figured out how to align the t on top of the k, but that's just my geekyness peeking through. Anyways, respect and a kiss:

Iris pectk

I most definitely did have swollen glans after that day!

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From: iisz
2006-08-22 09:40 am (UTC)
>>re: dirty boy ... I take no responsibility for any activities you may find yourself involved in related to Tim Hortons. I am not affiliated with Tim Hortons in any way....

But then why were you telling me to Roll Up Your R....Oh. It's like that is it? ;)

>>re: genius ... sometimes the puns are embarassingly heavy-handed, but even they can be worth a smile.

There is no such thing as too heavy-handed for a pun. I often just sit and make them up for myself. I will just pick something and go with it. One day on a long bus ride it was feet, here's an example, "Pumice me you won't be so callous." :) Yeah. Corny. Blame Spider Robinson. I tried to suppress it until I read him:
(to That's Amore)
"When you swim in the sea,
And an eel bites your knee,
That's a moray,
A New Zealand man,
With a permanent tan,
That's a Maori."

The man is my hero. I hate the days when they don't come easily. Er, the puns, not the man. My boyfriend and I go on tears with them. He manages to keep up very well, and the challenge is to remember what I've already done.
One memorable one in LJ was using the names of philosophers. But we were Jung-er then. Sartre of.

>>P.S. I very much appreciate people who appreciate plays on words - yours make me laugh. I'm going to start using the following double/triple entendre to acknowledge your puns, etc. Admittedly, it pisses me off that I haven't figured out how to align the t on top of the k, but that's just my geekyness peeking through. Anyways, respect and a kiss:

Woohoo! Respect and a kiss! My cup runeth over tonight. :*

>>Iris pectk

Ah, very good, thank-you. :)

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